Alternator for Perkins 4-154
Date: September 20, 2000
From: George "Buzz" Segura LAMTBUZZ@aol.com
Another bit of Perkins info I found under rec.boats.cruising newsgroup:
I am in need of an overhaul kit for a older Perkins 4-154 in my Columbia 41. Does anyone have any leads on a good, affordable supplier? Or how about a good lead on a used 4-236
Phone 206-789-4600. Ask for Larry Stewart of Stewart's Marine Engine and Machine Works. He's got a few older engines in stock and parts for almost anything Perkins ever built. A genuine resource for Perkins owners.
Date: September 20, 2000
From: George "Buzz" Segura LAMTBUZZ@aol.com
Paul
Finally in the process of getting my engine back into the boat, machine work and assembly complete. One the items I need to consider is the replacement alternator. So far i've learned:
- A really high output alienator may overcharge batteries and generally is more expensive.
- Some folks use automobile alienators (cheeper) but cannot be expected to last as long. (true/false)
- Suggestions give me the impression I would be best off to get one in the 110-120 amp range.
- May I ask what you deciced on . New or rebuilt ?
- Amperage, Make (has to fit 4-154 perkins)
Appreciate your input at your convience. This Forum Is Really Great ! Many Thanks.
Date: September 21, 2000
From: John Gerber bayhunt@x-press.net
Buzz
I just replaced the Delco Remey 62 amp alternator with a Balmar 100 amp on my E-43, Perkins 4-154. I also have the Link 2000R controler so that the batteries don't overcharge. It works great and charges my 6 golf cart batteries in short order. The only thing I had to do was to replace the adjustment bracket. The original was straight and the new one is curved. Good luck.
Date: September 21, 2000
From: Carl Hibbard Chgypsy@aol.com
Hello Buzz,
Your alternator questions.My short and sweet explanation would be...If your present system has served you well for the way you sail/anchor etc, keep it. If you are changing lifestyles, with big battery banks etc etc thats the time to get out the questions that you have.
Q: A really high output alienator may overcharge batteries and generally is more expensive.
---Yes to both--- Most of the burned out batteries I have seen are due to the 120v system chargers, or inverter chargers. ANY charging system can and will eventually boil a lead acid battery (that you add water to) out even with a correctly functioning system...misuse of one of the "fast/high output" systems can do it real quickly---shame on whoever for not checking the water.
Note: Distilled water IS the correct liquid, any other just starts chemical contamination.
Note: Please keep in mind that batteries if wired in parallel will have the weaker battery taking most of the charge. ERGO: One always boiling over and the other always undercharged.
Q: Some folks use automobile alienators (cheeper) but cannot be expected to last as long. (true/false).
---I'd say false-- I am assuming that you have your original alternator on your Perkins 4-154 and I'll bet that its a GM (Delco) model 10 SI (built in volt reg, used by GM from about 1972 thru early 90's with minor differences/series/outputs), at least that was what was standard on the 4-107 & 4-108's in Endeavours. It has a 2" mounting boss on the engine side and the outer bracket end has a single ear/bolt. On the single end use a mirror or ? and on the top surface of the case right behind the ear, you will see some stamped numbers, the upper right should be something like a 61A or 75A or whatever, thats the max output rating. Internally it has covered brushs (spark prevention), a seperate tach output (which is real "HOT") and the front of the case has huge air openings for cooling , ERGO: marinized.
Other...when looking at an IE: Balmar marine alternator and I see an A.C. Delco 10DN model,case has press in diodes, that was used by GM from 1963 to about 1970 (depended on model of car/truck) their external regulator is the "non automotive" part, again sealed brush cavities.
However there is one unusual thing about all of these alternators on our Endeavours. They are using "Y" wound as versus "Delta" wound stators. On this basis you could have an alternator putting out the correct voltage but only half the amps if one stator winding or one diode (out of 6 --3 Neg 3 Pos full wave bridge rectifier). ERGO: a slow charge complaint, but can keep you going.
Note: Endvr 32's came with Yanmars most often and used Delta wound Denso's.
Q: Suggestions give me the impression I would be best off to get one in the 110-120 amp range.
Reply-----I am assuming that you will be doing a LOT of anchoring out and using some big battery banks ?? (how many amp hours ???)and that you want a faster charging system. .... Assuming that you have 90% output when hot and that you are recharging say batteries with a total of 250 amp hour and were dead flat. You are talking about say 2.0 + hours at 1200 to 1300 engine rpm (most are geared about 2.5/3.0:1) once the batteries internal resistance allows it to start taking a charge....
Note: The fan pulls the air through the alt from the rear, so if you have a lot of sludge covering the finned rectifier and regulator heat sink the output will be a little lower yet.
Note: A 12 V. battery with a static voltage of 12.6 volts is basically fully charged (even though it might only put out 2 amps) and a static voltage of about 11.5 volts is dead flat
Lets assume someone sells you something like a SPA Creek fast charger....this raises the charging voltage and boils the water off quicker while it hits the batteries with that bigger fast charge....Talk with some other people and you decide.
Q: May I ask what you deciced on . New or rebuilt ?
Reply...At the moment I am using an 85 Amp Delco 'Y' only because I had it handy. The original was a 61Amp, I have other versions handy too. The batteries are a pair of Delco 30 series. With my particular background, I'm using what I am very familiar with, and that I have spare parts for if a rebuild should ever become necessary.
If for some reason you get your hands on one of the newer (GM) CS series (1985 up) they are all Delta's and the size rating is on the front face of the single ear casting. There are two different regulators but for our purposes it really wouldn't matter. Where the electric lead plugs in you will find a 'P' =tach lead; 'L'=dash idiot lamp; 'F' =field lead; 'S'=sense (battery voltage). You normally don't need more than F & P. There are 3 primary series IE the CS100,130,and 150, the numbers stood for the mm cross section. The 150 series would be my choice everything considered.
Amperage, Make (has to fit 4-154 perkins)
Reply----Hope the above answer makes sense.
PS. The starters used on Perkins were either the GM 25 or 27MT series, I believe that the mechanical fuel pump is theirs too--looks like it.
Date: September 21, 2000
From: Kevin Coon kkcoon@worldnet.att.net
Hi Buzz,
Alternator size depends on the capacity of your batteries . An alternator with high output will not overcharge your batteries if the regulator is working properly.
I use an automotive alternator, Delco 63 amp-it costs about 40 dollars. I think that they may not hold up as well to the bulk charging that we do with boat batteries. The componentry may be sized for constant low amp charging rather than bulk charging.. I have only blown up one of these-it was when I was using a manual regulator, my fault. At $40.00 I don't worry too much, I carry a spare or two. If you get much over 60 amps most of what I have read recommends double V-belts. I only have two batteries, 110 amp hours each, so the 63 amp is about perfect.
Making brackets for alternators is not a big deal, it's kind of fun figuring out how to make it work. All you need is a hammer, a drill, a hacksaw, vise grips and some bar stock. More tools are nice, but I've made them with these.
Have fun!
Date: September 22, 2000
From: Donna & Rick Cass bacchus42@earthlink.net
Dear Buzz,
We did lots of research, and found that the higher output alternators require at least double belts and thus a lot of alterations. Between 95 and 125 Amps will allow you to use a single belt, as the load will not overcome the friction/tension of the single belt. The real question is whether you have a battery bank that requires high output, and whether you have alternate charging means , E.G. Wind generator or solar panels. Your Alternator need not be, and probably should not be greater than 25% of total amp hour capacity of the house bank. Even less is OK if you run the engoine regularly. Larger capacity alternators will only over cgarge you battery bank if there is no smart regulator to shut down the output when batteries reach max. Frankly, though The usual 55 amp alternator is fine for coastal sailing, ect. On each boat we have had automotive alternators run for years in the "harsh marine enivironment", 15in one case. I think that this is because the engine room is usually warm and dry. Also, consider having a Delco rewired and have a larger stator installed, Cost in New England $90.00, instead of spending $300.00 + for the same thing with a fancy paint job. Just be sure that the alternator is remade with no internal regulator if you are adding a smart regulator.
Date: September 23, 2000
From: william l wachs slambam1930@juno.com
We have gone thru many automobile-style alternators (probably 1-1/2 per year total for both engine starting and house alternators...two battery banks, that is) and finally purchased a Balmar BRS II w/external regulator. It mounts the same as the auto. types but does have a 2-belt pulley...we use only one since that is all we have available on our Perkins diesel...but I think the model is available w/ONE belt pulley, too. The external regulator is supposed to be far superior to the auto. types internal regulator, but I don't see as much difference in charging current as I expected. So far, two seasons in the BVI, the Balmar has held-up and the single belt has been no problem.
The best investment we made is the Cruising Equipment Co. battery monitor system which gives a running account or amp-hours used and recharged (in both battery banks) as well as + and - amps and each battery terminal voltage. The only problem we had was with the rather fragile selector switches which we broke, but which CEC replaced at no charge. It was a challenging job to unsolder and resolder the new switch into the PRINTED CIRCUIT BOARD into which the switches are mounted.
I recommend both.
Date: September 25, 2000
From: Jim Salter jsalter@mylink.net
I have E-33..1984 with 3 cyl. Yanmar. I replaced Alt with 90 amp Balmar from West Marine. The higher out put alternaters will Not over charge batteries because the regulator determines battery charging. The Balmar alternater requires a regular in addition to the alternater itself. This is a small "black box" very easily attached to the alternater with some wires and is (or can be) some 4 or 5 feet away from the alternater. I used the Heart regulator also from West Marine. Read, re-read and re-read again the West Marine Catalogue advisor section on Alternaters . It is good.
I was having other elect. troubles and there is no real way to tell if the alternater / regulator is working or how well so I installed a AMP meter. I got the one with a "shunt" (what ever that is) because they say the higher out put alternater requires it. Again fairly easy to install - just more money.
Anyway what I discovered was
- If the batteries are low ( 12 volts or below) [ I also put in a digital volt meter on my electric panel] the alternater will put out 50 to 60 amps. I have never seen out put over 60 amps though it's rated at 90 amps.
- The Amp meter reading is not changed by engine RPM. My amp meter shows the same reading at 800 RPM as 1500 or 2000 so I see no reason to rev the engine if I'm just charging batteries.
- As the engine runs and the batteries become more fully charged the Amp meter reading drops from 50 or 60 Amps slowly down to about 5 to 10 Amps. The regulator is reducing the amount of current going into the batteried as they come closer to "full" [ 13.4 volts more or less] This only seems to take a half hour or so. This is with a very light electrical load, usually just the wind direction and depth instruments turned on and mabe the VHF radio.
- I am using two gel cell batteries, one for house ,one for start. Since the alternater output only goes to ONE of these batteries, in order to charge BOTH batteries from the engine alternater, I must put my battery selector on "BOTH" to start the engine and leave it there during the engine run. I think is pretty standard for most boats.
Best Wishes
Date: September 25, 2000
From: George "Buzz" Segura LAMTBUZZ@aol.com
Jim
Thanks for the info. Lots of replys. Going with six golf cart batteries changed by a 110 (or thereabouts) auto altinator. Lots of larger boats with such storage capacity found this combination both efficent and less expensive. I appreciate your input and access to such an informative forum and very helpfull members. Smooth Sailing
Date: September 28, 2000
From: Buzz Segura LAMTBUZZ@aol.com
Paul
Finally in the process of getting my engine back into the boat, machine work and assembly complete. One the items I need to consider is the replacement alternator.
So far I've learned:
• A really high output alienator may overcharge batteries and generally is more expensive.
• Some folks use automobile alienators (cheeper) but cannot be expected to last as long. (true/false)
• Suggestions give me the impression I would be best off to get one in the 110-120 amp range.
• May I ask what you decided on . New or rebuilt ? Amperage, Make (has to fit 4-154 perkins)
Appreciate your input at your convience. This Forum Is Really Great !
Date: October 10, 2000
From: Frank Boensch FDBASSOCIATES@compuserve.com
Just a few thoughts. First, I have a 40 with a Perkins 4-108. My set up is a 100 amp alternator, which is the largest that will fit on the engine without modification of the engine or the alternator. Second, I have a "dumb" regulator as opposed to a "smart" regulator. This makes a difference in the amount of time it takes to charge the batteries. I have 3-85 ah gell cells for the house batteries. The amount of time to charge the batteries is about 1.5 hours per day. Of course, this is a functin of how large your system draw is. We have a refrig, which is the big eater but there are also lights, instruments, etc.
