Installing a SSB
Date: December 22, 1998
From: Wayne Turk Janwayne@aol.com
I am about to install an ssb on my endeavor 40. I would be interested to know if anyone else has done so & what results did they get from grounding through the through hulls.
Date: December 24, 1998
From: Rob Chamberlain rchamber@snip.net
I bought an ICOM M700 and AT-120 second hand that I want to install on my Endeavour 32. From the reading I have done, using only the through-hulls for your ground plane would prove insufficient. It might work at some frequencies but your output would suffer. Again from what I read, all metal should be tied together as a minimum, ie. engine, through-hulls, fuel tank, etc. This is done with rolls of copper tape with a minimum width of 2 inches. What I want to do is install bronze screening under my settees below the water line and throughout the bilge area. I will connect these areas with the copper tape and bring the tape to the radio and tuner. I may also embed the screen in epoxy to protect it from chafe and corrosion. Fifty square feet is recommended for an adequate ground plane. The ground plane doesn't actually have to come in contact with the water. I also intend to install the antenna on the backstay. Defender sells the backstay insulators for about $130 a piece (1/4" wire). The tuner should be as close to the antenna lead-in as possible. The lead from the antenna to the tuner should be GT0-15 wire. It is recommended that the insulators for the backstay be installed 7 feet off the deck and 4 feet from the masthead. To use an AT-120 tuner the antenna must be at least 23 feet long. Hope this helps a little.
Date: December 26, 1998
From: Josh Wallach (S/V Last Trade) jwallach@flash.net
Wayne,
My E-through hulls (1987 E-42) are all MARLON and I thought Endeavour used marlon on all 38, 40, and 42's. I use a grounding plate fastened to the hull just forward of the Nav station. I don't have a SSB but I've
grounded my differential GPS to it to obtain a high S/N ratio (very successfully).
Date: December 27, 1998
From: William A. Aldridge mobetah@bellsouth.net
Hello Wayne,
I have a 40 Endeavor, MOBETAH. I have a converterd ICOM ham radio (clipped to transmit on marine bands). I have an electronic tuner (located behind the aft berth, just below the backstay), isolators on the backstay for an antenna. The boat is grounded (copper straps, engine, genset, throughhulls as well as copper screen beneath the aff berth. I used the radio which seemed to work very well for some time (until the boat was pulled of a bottom job when I installed a dynoplate (the largest west marine sold at the time - about 6" x 18"). The dynoplate see,ed tp really help reception and transmission. It is installed just to the port side of the propeller shaft, under the floor boards in the aft stateroom. It is through bolted and connected with copper straps to the grounding system. Hope this helps
Date: January 16, 1999 I use an SEA 222 and have done pretty much the same things as the above posts - I didn't use any screening. Found that with the dynaplate (mine is fairly small) and all metal as mentioned above attatched that my transmission and reception is excellent at all frequencies . Usually able to talk boat to boat with decent atmospheric conditions to states , canada , and bermuda from the caribbean, and shore stations in Europe and occasionally south pacific. The only thing I haven't seen covered is the size of the power wires to the SSB-they need to be pretty big. My run from power to SSB is 12 or 15 feet and I used #6 wire-if you have an install manual it will probably cover wire size (bigger wire for longer runs). E-mail me if you want to hook up for a test once you've installed - as long as you aren't too far inland we can probably talk . Good luck Date: May 14, 1999 I have found that the aluminum water and fuel tanks and the thru-hulls on my E-37 are plenty adequate grounding...got the whole mess tied together with 2" copper tape and run an Icom 735 Ham/SSB with an AH-2 tuner and backstay antenna with great reception and range. Also have a medium-sized grounding Dynaplate connected to the system. Date: July 7, 1999 On 'Falcon', our Endeavour 40, we send and receive email almost daily via 'ham' radio as well as monitor and participate in the 'Waterway Net', the 'Bahamas Weather Net', marine ssb and other nets at various times. Therefore it is important to have good antenna efficiency and signal strength. For a backstay antenna Icom recommends a 3" wide copper strip running the length of the boat and tied into thru hulls, engine, water and fuel tanks, etc. Copper foil sold in marine stores at about $1.00/ft for a 25ft roll is so thin that I could not see how I could thread it through the bilge or avoid damaging it in normal wear and tear. While anchored off St. Augustine, I located a near downtown roofing company and had them shear 50ft of 18 gage x 3" wide x 10ft long copper strips. This plus some narrower scrap strips cost $60.00 or only $10.00 more than the foil. These strips were easily pushed and/or pulled under the cabin sole, through the engine room, etc were easy to solder together with a propane torch. It was necessary to cut a slit with a sabre saw in the crossmember aft of the water tanks and maybe aft of the mast. (Don't remember.) I tied this strap into most things metal including the mast, an existing dynaplate, and the transceiver itself. Later I installed copper screening under the aft bunk area close to the backstay soldering the seams and edges every couple of inches as well as soldering it to the three inch strip. No meaningful before and after comparison as can be made because of varying propacation conditions. However, loading improved at the lower frequencies and we seem to get out as well or better than other boats, this despite the fact that we use no insulators in the backstay. The bottom of the backstay is ungrounded and connected to the center conducter of the coax from the xceiver which has a built-in antenna tuner. The coax shield is connected to the three inch copper strip near the backstay. This is a cheap antenna and doesn't introduce failure points (insulators) in the backstay but does have some negative considerations: Date: September 19, 1999 (On our E38) Our system was to install a Kenwoord 50, a very small unit with its antenna tuner. No insulation in the backstay. Underdecks connection to the backstay. It works very well. The grounding to the dynaplate did not add very much in reception quality. We have used the SSB on our trans atlantic crossing. Date: May 23, 2000 I have just bought a used ssb radio mfg name is "HULL" and was wondering if anyone has any information on this mfg. There was no information with it. Thanks. Date: September 25, 2001 Hello Paul, Date: September 25, 2001 About the lead in your keel. If you are able to find it and tap into it will it being covered with fiberglass provide a ground to the water? My boat has about a 1" fiberglass around the lead and I don't think it will provide the ground need. I'm not and electral expert so this is just thoughts. Good luck. Date: September 25, 2001 Hi Peter, Date: September 26, 2001 On my E-40, the lead is under the forward wtaer tank (which is under the main salon floor), and in front of where the 2nd water tank is. My lead is visible from the hatch that is located at the aft end of the 1st water tank. The 2nd water is positioned against the aft part of the lead "slug". The top of thelead is covered with fiberglass. The lead occupies the forward 1/3rd of my keel. The aft 2/3rds is hollow and is where th 2nd water tank and the fuel tank are located. I had an opportunity to get a good view of this area whne the boat was being repaired from my hitting a rock. They had to pull the water tanks to do the repairs and to make sure there was no breach of the integrity of the keel and lead. Hope this helps. Date: September 26, 2001 Hi Peter, Date: September 27, 2001 Hi Paul; I just installed an Icom SSB/HAM on my E-37. I did so after reading all I could, and asking electronics people about the installation and grounding of the unit. There is an article in this months Sail magazine that pretty much sums up the grounding questions. It is written by Gordon West who is very well know in his field of electronics. I believe it will make things a lot easier for Peter if he follows Gordon West's advice. I do not think the lead in the keel will be a good quality ground as it is shielded from the sea water by the fiberglass....Seawater is the key.
Date: January 20, 2003 Hello all, Date: January 20, 2003 Ahoy! Winlink is an email system for amateur radio operators. It's easier now for anyone to get a license. Although some have problems learning Morse code. A simple test and copy code at 5 words per min. My set up consists of an Icom 706 ssb ham transceiver and an automatic antenna tuner, a high frequency data modem and a laptop. If you are serious about cruising, the ham ssb is the best way to go for communicating beyond vhf range. There is a marine net on 14.300 mhz where you can check in from anywhere in the world. The email set up is a little more complicated but works well. There is a non-ham equivalent called Airmail but costs $100 a year for the privilege and uses the same hardware. The data modem on board is connected to a gps and every time I check into the winlink system it updates my position and can be called up by anyone on the internet. Email's sent from your boat go to the internet just like normal. Here are some links for more info. As for costs, you can find a good used ssb radio for around $750. The data modem, an SCS PTCIIe, costs around $650 A good automatic antenna tuner for around $250 A pair of back stay insulators for your antenna setup and your done! Not only can you talk all over the globe, but you can download weather charts, receive wefax, navtex, and satellite wx pictures. Since the Icom radio covers all frequencies you can listen to AM, short-wave, and marine bands too. No need for a separate SW radio. Bear in mind that this equipment holds its value for ever and it's worth the investment. Date: January 22, 2003 I have good reception and transmission on my 43 ketch. A 2-inch copper tape runs in the bilge along the whole length of the boat as ground. It is connected with the engine although it "should not". I have a Dynaplate outside the hull to which the copper ground is connected. That I have been told is essential. You must have a good ground. I am using a main stay that runs aft like yours as the antenna with two isolators. All parts are available in the boating catalogs or at a marine electronics distributor. I am not an expert on electrolysis with your engines. Date: January 26, 2003 Hello Kurt, You are forced to use a longwire omnidirectional antenna in a sailing boat. No choice, any direction sensitive antenna would be non functional. Because one cannot keep direction, except in a quiet harbor. The longwire antenna is obtained by coupling the transmitter/receiver via a complicated changeable impedance matching filter to one of the stays. You can connect it to the port or starboard stay. In my yacht I do not use a isolator in the backstay, so all stays are connected via the mast. It gives excellent connections. If you did not get the large Kenwood box to connect to a longwire, you should go and get it, in my opinion. It contains lots of relays that do the impedance matching, so it is powered by 12 V. It is positioned close to the stay, so you have to lead power there. You enter with the Kenwood antenna and exit to the stay. Earthing is the whole story for SSB at sea. You have to have a good earth and that is going to give a problem with your engine as you said. I do not understand why though. The proper way is to have all metal parts connected by an earth wire; this was done by Endeavour in my case. And you have to have a good water earth via a Dynaplate. This is a heavy job. One has to drill 2 holes (and no sailor likes to drill holes in his beloved vessel), in your case I recommend a Dynaplate in each hull, if your hulls are lifted with fast sailing. If you do not foresee this, mount the Dynaplate underneath one hull. We make a difference between battery ground and signal ground. They should come together at one point at the Dynaplate/groundplate according to theory. People have differences of opinion about this because of lightning strikes, that theoretically might blow a hole through the hull. I removed the battery ground because of this point. I would start out with connection of the signal ground, using heavy braided wire. You should use copper braided wire, but put a sleeve around it against oxidation. Well, if you don't like drilling holes there is a second way and that is a sheet of Aluminum on the floor, for example 100x50 cm. This will be close to the water and act as groundplate for the high frequencies (7-21Mhz) involved. I have not tried this but a friend of mine uses this with good results. I cannot show you my install or look at your install; I am very far away, at the end of the Med.
From: Kevin D. Coon kkcoon@viaccess.net
From: Mike MIller capnmike_s@yahoo.com
From: Van Stoffer abnjp@erienet.net
From: Fred Altmann fred.altmann@ibm.net
From: Rick Rheinlaender ClipperM30@aol.com
From: Peter Gradeff gradina@innet.com
The manual for my E-37 says " The ballast is internally mounted inside the keel which is molded integrally with the hull. Cast pieces of lead are placed in the hull, encapsulated...." Is there anyone who has seen it and advise as to the best place to access to the lead FROM INSIDE the boat, without blindly drilling to search for making the desired contact......I would like to make it a ground for a SSB radio. THANK YOU,
From: THBWHB@aol.com
From: Phil pvalois@tampabay.rr.com
First of all if the ballast is encapsulated it would'nt make a good ground. You need a grounding plate on the outside of the hull. This is a small but porous looking plate for max surface area in contact with the water. It is not painted with bottom paint. It has a stud comming through the hull for all ground connections. Good luck, Phil
From: John Bartoszek jbartosz@symbol.com
From: Roy Canon RoyCanon@prodigy.net
I am no expert, but I do not think grounding to the encapsulated ballast would provide a very good ground. I think you would want to ground to something exposed to the water. On our E35 the ground is achieved by a large grounding plate mounted to the exterior of the hull about 1/4 of the boat length forward of the stern. Good luck and fair sailing.
From: Ed Phillips EPhil49932@aol.com
I am writing this in reply to an email you sent. It was regarding Peter wanting to drill a hole in his keel to ground his SSB to the lead ballast.
From: Kurt Stephens cgavionoff@yahoo.com
I found the information on your website very interesting and informative. I have an Endeavour 30 Catamaran and am looking to install my new (Xmas gift) SSB radio with email capability. I don't have any ground plates installed and was wondering if there is a way that I can do without. If not, I'll have one or maybe two??? installed to take care of that problem. Since I have two hulls I'm not sure if I need two ground plates. I'm also interested in any information that would give me a pattern for a longwire antenna. I have one foreward stay and one each on port and starboard that angle back which precludes the need for a back stay. I can still mount a bar at the top of the mast and string the antenna aft to a heavy duty dinghy platform that can be grounded inside the boat to a ground plate. It isn't currently connected as such. I also have Volvo Sail drives that are required to be isolated from the boat ground system to prevent corrosion. I've already found out what happens when they aren't, the cost to replace the drives was substantial. I'm not sure but I think that if I do put ground plate(s) on the boat below the waterline that they will need to be away from the sail drives to prevent a battery effect from occuring. I could use some advice on that as well. I also know that once the ground plates are in that I need to run 2-3 inch copper foil inside both hulls and connect to everything that sticks out into the water, the engines, and the dinghy rack (1.5" aluminum). Hopefully this will give me the needed effects. I have a Kenwood TS570D ham radio, my wife is stuck with it and cannot return it so I have to use it which is ok since I can also use it in the house. I live in New Port Richey Florida on the Gulf. If anyone is nearby I can come and look at an installation. I realize that my Endeavour is not a real Endeavour to you guys, heh, heh, but I'd still appreciate any help you can give. Have a good day to all, and thank you in advance.
From: Robert Lucey bob_lucky@yahoo.com
I've been considering SSB recently, and a fellow sailor in our local yacht club sent me the following links that gave helpful background information. The first link in particular covers the questions about grounding.
http://www.geocities.com/jvandrey/flicka_ssb.html
http://winlink.org/
http://www.scs-ptc.com/
http://www.mmsn.org/
http://www.sailmail.com/grounds.htm
From: Wolfgang Harms Wolfgang@pioneer-research.com
From: Fred Altmann altmann@012.net.il
I never answered your query. It went by the wayside. So here come my pearls of wisdom.
