Changing a Hurth Transmission
Date: June 27, 1999 Three or four years ago the transmission rear seal began leaking on our Endeavour 40 'Falcon" on the way to George Town, Exuma, Bahamas. A look at a borrowed service manual for the Hurth l.5 Transmission convinced me that I could not change this seal on the boat as everything is pressed together and shop facilities would be required. Not wanting to risk sending the transmission back to the States for repair while anchored and unable to move if bad weather threatened, I ordered a new one from American Transmission near Annapolis (best price). They sent it UPS in 3 days! To open up access to the transmission I removed the bottom of the engine rear access door frame and floor molding (screwed on). I got a l" x 4"x about l8" board and drilled (4) l/2" holes- one near each end and two toward the center. I then clamped this board to the aft side of the crossmember running over top of the prop shaft coupling to serve as template to drill holes in the crossmember. After removing the l" x 4" I cut out as much of the cross- member as I could with a sabre saw (about 8" or 10"). The cut out piece contained the two center l/2" holes for bolting back in place. After removing an exhaust and bilge pump hose I had complete access to the transmission and drive coupling. After removing all bolts I found that the transmission spline shaft was rusted into the damper plate on the flywheel. The damper plate has springs in it similar to an old clutch plate to absorb shifting shock. It took a fight with screwdrivers, pry bars, wedges, etc. between the transmission and flywheel housing to get the transmission out destroying the damper plate in the process. I don't know how else it could be done. A call to American Transmission and I had a new Damper Plate in another 3 days. The old Damper Plate was fastened to the flywheel with (5) l/4" hollow head screws. It became quickly apparent that they could not be removed with a small Allen wrench. It was possible to get a good grip on the screw heads with a pair of vise grips but they would still not loosen with a reasonable force. Breaking off a hardened screw in the flywheel was not a pleasant prospect. I thoroughly heated a screw with a propane torch and it broke loose ok. It showed evidence of having Loc-Tite on it which needs heat to break it down. The other screws were removed with heat also. The new damper was installed just snug and a dial indicator set up to center it on the flywheel. A reference bar and feeler gauges could probably be used if a dial indicator is lacking. The engine was turned over with a wrench on the crank shaft pulley and the plate tapped onto center (the holes in the plate have clearance around the screws allowing movement). With the plate on center one screw at a time was removed, Loc- Tited, replaced and tightened. The new transmission with a well greased spline shaft was installed. The crossmember piece was bolted back in place with the l" x 4". The $1.95 seal was replaced in the old transmission with a few hour's labor in a friend's well-equipped shop. Footnote to above: The replacement transmission was a Hurth l.25 which has the same external dimensions as the original l.5, is supposedly rated up to the Perkins 4-108 horsepower and, of course, is cheaper. However, this spring this transmission began shifting poorly and overheating. We got back to the Chesapeake okay with a fan on it but transmission was scrap when examined. The only good news was that it took less than an hour to pull it out with removable crossmember. Moral: Stay with the Hurth l.5 if you replace the transmission and consider installing the Hurth water cooling plate on the transmissioon that American Transmission supplies for $88.00. I have mine ready to put on the old l.5 this fall. Date: October 9, 2000 Last year on my Endeavour 40 "Sea Ya" I lost the transmission on the way to the Bahamas. I replaced it with the same thing that was in it - a Hurth 1.25. It had a cooler on it. We went the Bahamas again this year & after returning home the transmission went out again. (approx. 700 hours) After talking to the people at Mastry in St Pete as to the reason for the failure in such a short time, I was told the main reason for transmission failures is overpropping. In my case the engine would not turn up the rated rpm's (2700 at full throttle) After research on the correct prop for this boat, engine & transmission I concluded that it is a 17/16 right hand. What I had on the engine was a 16/12 left hand. I don't know how this came to be as all the books on the boat call for the 17/16 Right hand. The Hurth transmission will run either direction, the only difference is that the gear ratio is different. 1.93/1 in one direction & 2.63/1 in the other. In my case the prop was for the direction of the higher gear with a smaller prop. I have now put on the right-hand prop using the lower gear in hopes it will last with this setup. If any of you have had any experience with this, please let me know. Date: October 11, 2000 Wayne, The only problems that I have had with the transmission is that it is sometimes slow to shift when put into gear. Other than that, it just keeps going. I hope so, as I plan to leave St Louis soon, heading south down the Mississippi to New Orleans. Don't know where I'll go from there, west to Texas, or east to Florida, or ...... Date: January 5, 2003 Dear Paul, Date: January 8, 2003 Hello Albert, Date: January 8, 2003 Probably the easiest job you will have to do on the boat. It will come off the back of the engine with the 4 bolts. Unbolt the flange to the shaft then the 4 bolts off the engine. Disconnect the water hoses if you have a cooler mounted on the side. If you don't have a cooler put one on the new transmission. Slide it off the splined end of the shaft from the engine & you have it. Next chapter...Why did it go out? How many hours on it? What type prop are you using? What rpm will your engine turn up to at full throttle? It took me 2 transmissions to keep this from recurring but with the proper prop it will last. Date: January 10, 2003 Hello Albert, <<I need to remove the Hurth 150 transmission (Perkins 4-108 engine) Suggest that you start with a cable adjustment, particularly as you state it doesn't slip in reverse . Date: January 10, 2003 Albert, One other thing that relates to this topic is the issue of freewheeling props. There is a discussion topic on it that essentially says that a prop left to spin while underway can cause premature wear to the transmission. Now this is on the Yanmar and I don't know the differences between yours and mine but their may be some similarity here. Since we had the 'new' trans.' installed, we sail with our transmission in reverse which is recommended by Yanmar. This keeps the prop locked in place and we don't worry about it not getting its proper lubrication. Some have fixed a shaft lock instead, which i think is a better way to go. I sometimes forget that the trans is locked in reverse when I go to start up the engine. Date: January 10, 2003 I don't have an E40 but have an E38, and previously an E32. Had a similar problem with the 32 but the folks in a Riviera Beach boatyard solved the problem with a clutch change, which was done in a day without pulling the engine. (It was a Yanmar, though). Not sure if this is of any use. Date: January 17, 2003 Albert Felsher, I have a 1981 Endeavour 40 and I had to remove the transmission several years ago when the forward gear started slipping. I found out that the reason for the slippage is that Mastry Engine Center in St Pete (they supplied the engines to Endeavour) put a transmission on the engine that was rated for only 35HP when used in a displacement hull. This caused greater than normal wear on the forward clutch plates and hence the eventual slippage. I opted to replace the transmission with the new beefed up version of the Hurth gearbox, rated for 60HP displacement. That new gearbox has over 1600 hours on it with no signs of slippage whereas the original box failed at 900 hours. And the new box is exactly the same physical size as the old box, so no modifications were necessary to install it. Now, how did I get it out? I first unbolted the coupler from the shaft (four bolts) and then removed the shift cable and also the lever from the shift shaft. Then I unbolted the adaptor plate from the back of the engine, all the bolts being in a circular pattern at the edge of the plate. One of those bolts holds the shut down solenoid in place. Once this was loose I removed the adaptor plate and transmission from the engine compartment via the removable back access panel hole in the rear engine room bulkhead. Once I had the transmission on the back cabin floor, I unbolted the transmission from the adaptor panel removing the bolts from the engine side of the adaptor panel. Reversing the whole procedure installed the new transmission. It took a total of right at 3 hours. The new transmission cost $1150 complete, but that was early 1990ies prices. I also got the old transmission rebuilt by Tuit Transmission in Ft. Lauderdale ($600) and I carry it as a spare on the vessel. Hope this helps. Date: February 6, 2003 Thanks for responding to my need to remove the Hurth transmission from the Perkins 4-l08 on my E 40. An earlier forum entry reported temporarily cutting away an 8 inch section of the beam near the aft end of the trans. Were you able to remove the trans without cutting this beam or moving the engine? I expect to find a shop on the Gulf coast that can rebuild the trans. Yours and other replies I received did not mention this beam. Aparently you did not need to cut the beam or move the engine. One reply I received seemed to report that the trans was removed without removing any adapter panel. Is this possible? You reported that you removed an adapter panel. My ailing trans is size 150 which should b proper for the 50 hp Perkins 4-108. Why it failed at 2000 hrs is a mystery to me. Maybe shift lever arm not moved far enough, maybe sailing with trans if forward or neutral. I expect to have a professional rebuild it. As for slipping in forward and not in reverse. In forward, slipping occurs when RPM is between about 2300 and 3400. Once slipping starts, engine RPM quickly goes to the max with little or no prop RPM. Slipping has never occured with max trottle and engine RPM of about 2500. This is with a clean prop. Adjusting the cable (shift arm on trans) only affects whether the trans will go into gear. Too much forward then no reverse. Too much reverse and then no forward. Date: January 22, 2005 Dear Bill some details of the operation might be of interest to you.As you might know, the German company that manufactured the Hurth transmissions is now an Italian company, ZF Marine, with a slightly different line. I dealt with a company in New Orleans named Commercial Marine which claimed tobe anauthorized dealer. They dealt with a company in FL which I guess is an importer of Hurth transmissions. After looking at my transmission,Commercial Marine said I needed a clutch assembly and input shaft for about $1400 or a new unit for about the same price. I was led to believe that the ZFHBW125 which they had on hand was the only replacement which had the same two ratios of my old HBW150 and that the 125 was in all ways compatible with my Perkins 4108. I wanted to keep the same ratios and also to get on wit the job so I took their advice, got the ZFHBW125 and installed it without any unexpected problems. Since my old trans did not ave a water cooler attachment, I did not follow their recommendation that I install one on the new trans. Since installing the new trans, I have used it so little, maybe 200 hrs. and never in a heavy load situation and therefore don't have any useful information on it's performance except there have been no problems. With hindsight, I wish I had done more research as you and some others had problems believed to be the result of trans less than the HBW150. One further item is that someone from te FL company said that I could get a repai manual by copying from a web site. I did not try to verify that as i already had a manual for the HBW50 to HBW250 trans.
From: Van abnjp@erienet.net
From: Wayne Turk JANWAYNE@aol.com
From: Sam Woolsey SamWoolsey@aol.com
I have the standard 3 Blade 17/16 RH prop on my E-40 with the standard Hurth gear box with NO cooler. It has pushed Solveig along the Gulf ICW from Galveston to New Orleans and from Kentucky Lake, KY, down the Tennessee River, the Ohio River, and Up the Mississippi River to St. Louis, MO without any problems. The engine is able to develop its full 3400 RPM. At 2700 RPM Solveig cruises along at about 6.5Kts.
From: Albert Felsher arfelsher@pocketmail.com
I need to remove the Hurth 150 transmission (Perkins 4-108 engine) on an E40 and would like input on the best way or ways to accomplish this. My transmission in forward, slips badly at RPM about 2500. Lowering the RPM to about 1000 results in little or no slipping. No slipping is noticed in reverse. I see no information more recent than 1999 on the forum. Are there others out there with E40's that have had the transmissions removed? Any info will be greatly appreciated.
From: Joel Braverman bravoj@worldnet.att.net
I had to have my Hurth trans rebuilt when I purchased my E40 in 1996. The boat was in the water and the trans was easily removed by disconnecting the shaft and sliding it back slightly to allow the trans to be removed from the Perky 4108. The rebuild was done by Mack Boring Co. in Union NJ (since I don't know where you are located) but should be able to be done at a reputable engine establishment in your area. We have experienced no difficulty since.
From: Wayne Turk janwayne@aol.com
From: Carl Hibbard Chgypsy@aol.com
My transmission in forward, slips badly at RPM about 2500. Lowering the RPM to about 1000 results in little or no slipping.No slipping is noticed in reverse. At the same RPM & load factors?
From: Paul C. Uhl endvr32@endeavourowners.com
Several years ago we had the exact same experience with the transmission on our E32. I'm not sure if it is a Hurth but we ended up having it rebuilt. According to our yard here in Chicago, the gripping surfaces in the transmission had worn down and needed to be replaced. We had it rebuilt and it's been fine ever since.
From: Neil Mackay mackay.n@emstechnologies.ca
From: William Schreiber whatever4@juno.com
I apologize for taking so long to respond, but I just returned from a boat delivery that I started on Jan 6th.
From: Albert Felsher arfelsher@pocketmail.com
From: Albert Felsher arfelsher@bellsouth.net
This response to your email which gave me the information and encouragement I needed to replace the transmission on my E40is long overdue. I made the change soon after exchanging emails with you but that was almost two years ago. A belated thanks to you.
